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Removal of "Eulogy Controversy" section

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I would be interested to know the reason for this entire section being removed (see difference: [1]). Oettinger is a politician and both good and bad information tends to be included on such leading figures. This information is referenced, relevant and of an encyclopaedic nature - see similar articles on state leaders such as this: [2]. BuzzWoof (talk) 11:41, 7 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the removal was explained. The section is totally inappropriate and excessive, as pointed out. It takes up about one third of the entire article, which makes the entire article into an Wikipedia:Attack page and grossly violates NPOV, possibly also the BLP policy. This is a top politician, a Prime Minister for several years of one of Germany's largest states and designated European Commissioner. His eulogy at the funeral of one of his predecessors is a trivial issue that hardly belong in this article at all (at the very best, one carefully worded sentence would be appropriate). The section was excessive and the content was not of encyclopedic nature. Whether it was referenced or not is irrelevant, it was still POV, attack page, WP:UNDUE and not encyclopedic. Urban XII (talk) 21:10, 7 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Let's try to work this one out constructively. If you feel "The section was excessive" and "at the very best, one carefully worded sentence would be appropriate" could you or someone else possibly make a more constructive contribution by summarising the section to a length that you feel IS appropriate - rather than removing the ENTIRE section, which is the point I was trying to make. Regarding "It takes up about one third of the entire article" - have you seen the German article on which this one is based? The (objective - and fully referenced) criticism ("Kritik") there takes up around 25% of the article. And the main part of the German "Kritik" section is about the eulogy, so German editors seems to disagree with this being "a trivial issue that hardly belong in this article at all". It clearly is relevant! If this cannot be resolved I would be willing to translate the entire German article, though not soon. Any volunteers? BuzzWoof (talk) 10:22, 8 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"In 2007, a eulogy[1] held by Oettinger on one of his predecessors as Prime Minister, Hans Filbinger, caused some controversy in the German press and divided opinion[2]" would be an approproate length and wording. I don't think it's necessary to discuss Filbinger's career in detail in this article. It would not be appropriate to have a separate section title for this (particularly not in an article with only a few other section titles). There are many articles in the German Wikipedia that don't comply with English Wikipedia policies like NPOV, UNDUE, and specifically BLP, and would never be accepted in such a form here. The fact that negative material on conservative politicians tend to be given undue weight at the German Wikipedia doesn't mean the English Wikipedia has to do the same mistake. It's not accepted by everyone, particularly not by CDU Baden-Württemberg, that the eulogy was somehow a bad thing.[3]. Urban XII (talk) 12:09, 8 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I get the impression that there is some hidden agenda here that neither interests me, nor (probably) most users of Wikipedia. I would prefer please to stick to facts and leave partisan interests out of this. Agreed, German articles would be evaluated differently from English, but some stuff should go in. The article was, incidentally, not "created primarily to disparage its subject" (Wikipedia:Attack page). The German article which would also definitely not qualify as "created primarily to disparage its subject" but the English press knows little about half of the stuff in there (even though much of it is known by the German press, including Spiegel). For now, why not put in a short sentence or two as you suggest but I would pad it out so it's not drowning in vagueness and beating about the bush. Readers need to know what the controversial point was. TBH the section you removed before had some of the key facts in it! BuzzWoof (talk) 13:01, 8 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Beside the fact that I doubt that he's an english teacher,that statement is nowhere to be seen on the german article. What's the source for this statement of him being an English teacher by profession? harrydober (20:05, 6 February 2010 (GMT +1)

References

  1. ^ Full text of Oettinger's eulogy for Hans Filbinger (in German) (Microsoft Word document, 232 KB). Frankfurter Rundschau, 12 April 2007.
  2. ^ http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/0,1518,477272,00.html


Öttinger English Live Recording

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Brussel EU-Commisioner with High School Diploma call In Stuttgart 'Abitur', a studied 'Ferwaltungsfachwirt or so can be seen on YouTube Dot Com

Mr Staccato

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